Are electric cars really a disappointment?

Give it 10/15 years.

Give it until the speculators raise gas prices to $6/gal this summer of 'fears' that Iran will close the Straits of Hormuz.

Considering that the original cars traveled at a breakneck speed of 5 miles an hour and got rotten gas mileage 5miles to the gallon, and had no headlights or turn signals, or doors, I'd say we will get something done fairly quickly when the gas hits 6 dollars a gallon, which by the way will happen sooner than this summer.

Considering that the original cars traveled at a breakneck speed of 5 miles an hour and got rotten gas mileage 5miles to the gallon, and had no headlights or turn signals, or doors, I'd say we will get something done fairly quickly when the gas hits 6 dollars a gallon, which by the way will happen sooner than this summer.

No kidding! It's already starting to trickle into the headlines and I've already seen the gas prices start to make their new semi-annual upward spike.

Frankly? I'd rather a little range anxiety at this point instead of the weekly heart-attack and tears at the pump but we can't afford one yet. Ironically enough, because of that weekly heart-attack and tears at the wailing station- and I drive a car with good mileage.

Yeah, right! How many Miles do you drive ONE way and how many hours is the Cars parked waiting the return trip?

Eagle,

That is true for the typical commute. But what about long trips, sales people that drive to meeting after meeting, towing or work vehicles, etc. Don't get me wrong, electric cars with stationary recharging stations for commuters would be a great improvement. But we do have these other issues that have to be solved, too.

We need a fuel cell that is sized for a vehicle. Something that can be "recharged" in the time it takes to refuel a conventional vehicle. Some fuel cells can use conventional fuels and alternative fuels with an increase in efficiency at least double that of an IC engine/power train.

Par, I totally agree. My point is for those that can't afford a commute car and a utility vehicle. And in this country that is quite a few people. As for those that have one car now and do not have a use for it other than driving to and from work or grocery/department store shopping the current electric cars are fine.

If I could afford a second car, I would buy an electric. That would allow me to use my pick up only for towing and hauling. I would love it.

My point is for those that can't afford a commute car and a utility vehicle. And in this country that is quite a few people.

True... but this is why the used car market is so huge in the U.S. Most people don't buy new cars. And when they do buy used cars, they are buying a car that, when it was brand new, was between $20,000~$50,000. Used, they are buying it for $5000~$15,000.

The market is ripe and ready for a GOOD electric car. Those that can't afford it, usually aren't the demographic that would buy a BRAND NEW car anyway. Those that ARE the demographic to buy a brand new car, would be interested in an electric car so long as it isn't this tiny, pathetic, weak, ugly, helmet with wheels on it. If I'm going to spend $40,000~$45,000 on a POS Chevy Volt or Toyota Prius... why wouldn't I spend an extra $5000 and get a Tesla Model S sedan that does 0-60 in under 6 seconds, has two trunks, fits five adults comfortably, and has some of the coolest new gadgets/technology in the auto industry (a 17" touch screen center console)?

How many of us get annoyed at the Prius drivers who clog up the passing lanes on the left because they really wished they could go fast but their cars won't let them. So they struggle to even get up to 70MPH? Most of those people would jump at the chance to have a car that goes 0-60 in 6 seconds and can cruise at 80~90 mph. Look at how many Prius have been sold at $45,000. Tesla is poised to take over the hybrid/electric market because they will be the only one with a GORGEOUS luxury sedan, that performs better than a gas engine car, for roughly the same price as a prius. All the prius owners who's lease is going to be ending soon will be very interested in a Tesla Sedan.

And the best part... you can get up to 300 mi on a single charge. The electric company will give you a huge discount to install a 480V charger for the Tesla at your house (at least in So Cal they will). And you can charge the car in 45min with the 480V plug. And the charger can use 120V, 240V and 480V plugs to charge the car.

The cost to charge the car from empty to full is around $4 worth of electricity. Think about that!

So, why the masses cannot buy an electric car YET... in a few years, as the new cars start showing up on the used car market... you'll start to see more and more people driving them.

No problem Par. Gave me the chance to elaborate.

Wake,

There are 2 markets for cars. When I commuted and was married we had a little "throw away" that got 40 mpg. And we had a "touring" sedan for long trips. My wife used that one for her 10 mile commute and I used the commuter for my 35 and then 50 mile commute, each way. That typifies the 2 car markets. And then there are the utility vehicles, like pickups. We need electric vehicles in all these categories, not just the luxury or commuter areas. All of them.

Tim S.-560036 I Agree so read what I posted earlier about " charging lanes " and then you see that there is NO limit, just propaganda.

Par4TheCourse By Charging lanes I means Non Stop on the GO induction charging, the best will be powered by Side of road PV panels , as I said in an earlier post, when all homes and all places that have ROOF mounted PV panels are joined on the Grid, then the Grid itself become a huge capacitor, so the Sun Power will be 24/7.

Eagle,

Two comments. First in regards to:

Tim S.-560036 I Agree so read what I posted earlier about " charging lanes " and then you see that there is NO limit, just propaganda.

I don't see an earlier post. I agree with the idea of charging lanes and think it could be done efficiently with wireless magnetic resonance induction on the move.

Second, I apologize for addressing 2.6 to you. I missed that "Yeah Right" was referring to another poster. My bad.

Tim S.-560036 ok Sorry i was mistaken in thinking that you where part of a previous chat on this topic of electric cars, if you want to read what i said previously click on my name and look at the Other chats we have had on how to utilize the Suns power 24/7 , including the use of flywheels and counterweights. And on the second point no need to worry, chat is more fun with some mistakes :-))

I do recall those other seeds, now. It really was a misunderstanding of "Yeah right". The first time through I read it as an inflection and not as a name. Really puts a whole different meaning with that little error.

lol nice ties in with another chat i had about " words meanings and train of thought" shows you how a words meaning is in part determined by the train of thought when the word is heard or read.

Wake,

There are 2 markets for cars. When I commuted and was married we had a little "throw away" that got 40 mpg. And we had a "touring" sedan for long trips. My wife used that one for her 10 mile commute and I used the commuter for my 35 and then 50 mile commute, each way. That typifies the 2 car markets. And then there are the utility vehicles, like pickups. We need electric vehicles in all these categories, not just the luxury or commuter areas. All of them.

Well sure. Electric cars would be beneficial in all areas. But I ask you, how many of those areas use brand new cars off the showroom floors and how many use used cars? There are way more used cars sold every year than new cars, ESPECIALLY in the $5000 to $20,000 range. It's stupid to put 10's or 100's of millions of dollars into R&D for an electric car that you are going to sell at around $20,000. First the profit margin on that type of car is small to begin with. Second, you are competing against a much wider pool of cars both new AND used. For $20,000 you could get a used Mercedes or BMW that is much roomier, much quicker, and much nicer than a leaf.

So what happens... now you realize the error of your ways, and you then have to adjust the retail price of the car at the last minute before launch. So your $20,000 car now HAS to sell for $35,000 to $45,000 otherwise you will go bankrupt.

so then you look at the market for brand new cars in the $30,000 to $50,000 range. That range is Infiniti G and M series, Mercedes C and E class. BMW 3 and 5 series, Lexus IS, ES and GS, etc.

Why on earth would someone with the money to buy a brand new Mercedes E class or BMW 5 series go with a subcompact leaf or a compact volt instead? They wouldn't!!! The people that WOULD buy a a subcompact or compact brand new can't afford $35,000~$45,000. So they will have to wait until they go for sale on the used market. But there won't be that many on the used market since very few people will buy them brand new... see my point. It was these large car manufacturers way of ensuring that electric cars don't take a foothold even though the public is screaming for them.

This is where Tesla comes in and made the right decisions. When you look look at the history of cars the industry STARTED by selling luxury cars to the very few who could afford it. Those of you who still have grandparents that are with us, ask them how many people had cars when they were kids in the early 1900s. Few and far between. The electric car has to follow the same path and business model. And that is what Tesla is doing.

By Charging lanes I means Non Stop on the GO induction charging, the best will be powered by Side of road PV panels , as I said in an earlier post, when all homes and all places that have ROOF mounted PV panels are joined on the Grid, then the Grid itself become a huge capacitor, so the Sun Power will be 24/7.

Nikola Tesla invented this in 1931, but without even needing a power grid.

http://www.reformation.org/nikola-tesla.html

Nikola Tesla's electric car

After the AC induction motor, we think that the greatest invention of Tesla was the electric car. This was no ordinary battery driven car because this car took its power from the ether, just like an automobile antenna picks up radio waves from the ether.

In 1931, under the financing of Pierce-Arrow and George Westinghouse, a 1931 Pierce-Arrow was selected to be tested at the factory grounds in Buffalo, N.Y. The standard internal combustion engine was removed and an 80-H.P. 1800 r.p.m. electric motor installed to the clutch and transmission. The AC motor measured 40 inches long and 30 inches in diameter and the power leads were left standing in the air—no external power source and no recharging of any batteries was necessary.

At the appointed time, Nikola Tesla arrived from New York City and inspected the Pierce-Arrow automobile. He then went to a local radio store and purchased a handful of tubes (12), wires and assorted resistors. A box measuring 24 inches long, 12 inches wide and 6 inches high was assembled housing the circuit. The box was placed on the front seat and had its wires connected to the air-cooled, brushless motor. Two rods 1/4" in diameter stuck out of the box about 3" in length.

Mr. Tesla got into the driver's seat, pushed the two rods in and stated, "We now have power". He put the car into gear and it moved forward! This vehicle, powered by an AC motor, was driven to speeds of 90 m.p.h. and performed better than any internal combustion engine of its day! One week was spent testing the vehicle. Several newspapers in Buffalo reported this test. When asked where the power came from, Tesla replied, "From the ether all around us".

Here is a report of the incident from Tesla biographer Marc J. Seifer:

"The car [was] a standard Pierce Arrow, with the engine removed and certain other components installed instead. The standard clutch, gear box, and drive train remained.... Under the hood, there was a brushless electric motor, connected to [or in place of] the engine.... Tesla would not divulge who made the motor.
Set into the dash was a "power receiver" consisting of a box ... containing 12 radio tubes.... A vertical antenna, consisting of a 6 ft. rod, was installed and connected to the power receiver [which was] in turn, connected to the motor by two heavy, conspicuous cables.... Tesla pushed these in before starting and said: "We now have power."
If this tale is to be believed, it would mean that Tesla had also installed one of his powerful oscillators somewhere near Niagara Falls to provide the wireless energy needed to power the vehicle."(Seifer, Wizard. The Life and Times of Nikola Tesla, p. 419).

With the discovery of electricity, everybody expected that all cars would be electric and run on rechargeable batteries. Tesla had gone one better and actually produced a working automobile that ran on electricity taken from the surrounding ether like an antenna picks up radio waves. This would revolutionize travel just like his AC induction motor had revolutionized the industrial world.

The 3 stooges Morgan, Rockefeller, and Ford had to sabotage his idea at all costs....No air polluting gasoline engine meant no oil monopoly for Rockefeller and the Standard Oil Company. No oil monopoly meant no excuse for Rockefeller to own the U.S. government, and no excuse to be involved in foreign countries . . . especially those surrounding Russia.

again, I said baseline. once all cars have to be electric, the competition for sales will generate improvements in tech.

and since we now have a practical model, there is no excuse for continuing to poison the air we breathe.