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Article Source: CNN(CNN) -- Whooping cough, also known as pertussis, has claimed the 10th victim in California, in what health officials are calling the worst outbreak in 60 years.
Since the beginning of the year, 5,978 confirmed, probable and suspected cases of the disease have been reported in California.
-- Miriam Falco
"This is a preventable disease," says Sicilia, because there is a vaccine for whooping cough to protect those coming in contact with infants, and thereby protect the infants.
However, some parents are choosing to not vaccinate their children. In other cases, previously vaccinated children and adults may have lost their immunity because the vaccine has worn off.
#1 - Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:17 PM EDTOnly an idiot would not get this vaccine.. 10 infants died because some parents have their head up their arse... Yeah.. You showed us how stupidity kills..don't have the vaccine given to the infant.. naw.. you tell'em .. I'd rather have my child die than to have that mean old vaccine...dips.
Whooping cough vaccine not as powerful as thought
Of the 18 students in the recent Cobb cluster, 17 were properly immunized with five doses of DTaP vaccine, which protects against diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis, health officials said.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/G/cases&deaths.pdf
http://eprints.maths.ox.ac.uk/375/1/157.pdf
The obtained figures indicate that in New Zealand the
effective vaccination rate against pertussis is lower
than 50%, and perhaps even as low as 33% of the
population. These figures contradict the medical
statistics which claim that more than 80% of the
newborns in New Zealand are vaccinated against
pertussis (Turner et al., 2000). This contradiction is
due to the mentioned unreliability of the available
vaccine. The fact that the fraction of immune population
obtained here is considerably lower than the
fraction of vaccinated population implies a high level
of vaccination failure.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol6no5/pdf/srugo.pdf
Vaccinated adolescents and adults may serve as reservoirs for silent infection and become potential transmitters to unprotected infants (3-11). The whole-cell vaccine for pertussis is protective only against clinical disease, not against infection (15-17). Therefore, even young, recently vaccinated children may serve as reservoirs and potential transmitters of infection
note: the acellular vaccine used today is considered safer but less effective.
http://www.adacel-locator.com/support/brochure/adacelpatientbrochure.pdf
It is unknown whether immunizing adolescents and
adults against pertussis will reduce the risk of transmission
to infants.
The cdc has stated that pertussis has remained endemic in spite of high vaccine coverage.
Singling out the unvaccinated as a cause is premature.
Par,
Here are some articles with more info on the deaths and the outbreak.
Vaccinations do not begin until 8 weeks of age....the same time that most of these babies died.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/24/us/24cough.html
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/201681.php
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/09/q-a-on-whooping-cough-are-immigrants-fueling-the-epidemic.html
#2 - Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:11 PM EDTMoCowgirl,
Good links. And they all point to the fact that these children could only have been protected by the 'herd immunity' achieved when we ALL get our immunizations.
I've had so many conversations on the Vine about this. People say 'It's my body. What difference does it make to you if I don't get vaccines?'
Well, here's the answer.
I had all of my childhood vaccinations...including smallpox before entering school and then again at the age of 12.
I have never had anything except a tetnus booster since then...and I thought that these vaccines were supposed to be good for life and I have never had a doctor recommend any boosters for the childhood vaccinations.
Does this mean that all adults must not be re-vaccinated? And if so what if they have already had the mumps and chicken pox? With the combination of some vaccines in one shot, what will it do to the immune system of a person who has already had some of the diseases?
And my husband claims that he had whooping cough as a child. Is he immune?
Actually there are vaccinations.. damn .. It was on the CDC site .. but I printed it out for my doctor to ask questions about it.. can't remember the actual link..
There is a "booster" per se' for Chicken pox.. after Chicken pox.. there are chances of getting Shingles.. I asked my doctor.. hell if I knew that I could of hand my roof done for nothing.. argh.. bad I know.. She told me that maybe I should get a shot so Nov 2 I see her..and get a shot..
Here is the main page for vaccinations..
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/schedules/adult-schedule.htm
There should be a schedule someplace that list age and the type of shots.. some my doctor said one does not need unless you might of been exposed ..
I am due for tetnus booster in a couple of years....other than that I am good. Yea!!!
I can give shots to animals....other than that I do not want a needle anywhere close to me.
Lmao!!
I cringe getting shots.. but I'd rather have that than the alternative..
I usually only "remember" to get my tetnus booster because I have ripped some skin fairly deep with rusty metal, barb wire or something else that makes it absolutely necessary. So far things of this nature falls around the 10 year mark....because really it is recommended to get a booster most every time an "accident" happens....so I just combine the two. LOL!
I cringe getting shots.. but I'd rather have that than the alternative..
It's not an if/or. Just because you don't get a shot doesn't mean you'll get a clinical disease. Chances are you won't.
I can understand why you would need a tetnus booster every so often...
That's the way to do it.. why waste a trip.. it is a way of reminding yourself too.. large gapping wound "Oh Yeah!! Tetnus time"..
---
Robert I believe in everyone receiving vaccines.. please read previous posts..
Robert I believe in everyone receiving vaccines.. please read previous posts..
The evidence shows that everyone doesn't need vaccines.
The evidence shows that everyone doesn't need vaccines.
If you don't mind increased risk of killing innocent newborn babies.
Whooping cough is spread by people who have been fully vaccinated. It is a medical fact. Many in the field don't know this.
A much milder version is very rare in vaccinated people. A booster is also needed 10 years after the childhood dose. What is your point?
We still can eventually eliminate the disease from the planet with this vaccine with high enough herd immunity.
But people love internet rumors and conspiracy.
We still can eventually eliminate the disease from the planet with this vaccine with high enough herd immunity.
No you can't. It's a bacteria!
And... the vaccine is not even for the bacteria it's for the toxin.
Mark d, maybe you should learn the origins of your own thoughts and beliefs. You are parroting someone else's flawed ideology by repeating posts like the above. There is no legitimate pro vaccine scientists who even believes what you just said.
You're post is ironic in that you question someone else source and education yet you don't even know the basic facts of what this vaccine does and cannot do.
And... the vaccine is not even for the bacteria it's for the toxin.
You are talking about the Acellular pertussis vaccine? Yes, it promotes immunity from the bacteria by introducing a toxin and other proteins only appearing on the outer wall of the bacteria. The vaccine is parts on the surface of the bacteria, your body targets those parts that exist on the bacteria itself. What is your point in bringing up this technical point other than to pick at me for having a opinion that differs from yours?
And yes I am aware it will not eradicate the bacteria, but the disease can be with a high enough herd immunity.
There is no legitimate pro vaccine scientists who even believes what you just said.
Really?
"Since then, our team at the University of Rochester has been a leading advocate for the use of acellular pertussis vaccines in infants and toddlers. Now with the availability of acelluar pertussis vaccines for adolescents and adults, we can complete the cycle of immunization with booster shots to finally eliminate whooping cough in the United States.”
- Michael Pichichero, M.D., lead investigator of the JAMA study and professor of Microbiology, Immunology, Pediatrics, and Medicine at the University of Rochester Medical Center.
---
Attempting to make me look bad is not addressing the fact of the effectiveness of the vaccine or the increased deaths due to vaccine refusal inspired by rumor and hearsay.
Rule # 1: follow the money!
http://www.ajmc.com/supplement/managed-care/2006/2006-08-vol12-n10Suppl/Aug06-2355pS282
Mark D: but the disease can be with a high enough herd immunity.
NO it can't! You don't know what you're talking about. Just admit that you're not very sure. Bacteria can colonize in people without disease. The vaccine may possibly be good at lessening the disease but not for preventing it entirely.
Attempting to make me look bad is not addressing the fact of the effectiveness of the vaccine or the increased deaths due to vaccine refusal inspired by rumor and hearsay.
You make your own self look bad when you spout off ignorance!
There is no way to prove what you say because the data isn't in. You can't blame the unvaccinated from the data because it doesn't exist. You're going off of emotion and what you "feel" to be the cause.
Also the deaths appear to be mainly in hispanics. Do you know why? With all of the cases of pertussis (pertussis has ben prevalent for yeas. see above) why are the deaths mainly in hispanics. Did no other 3 month olds get the disease or cough?
Of the deaths and/or cases, how many households were fully vaccinated? How many did the vaccine fail in? How many were not vaccinated. Do these rates follow any sort of trend?
The vaccine supposedly has 64% efficacy(which is not the same as effectiveness) vaccine wanes and even the vaccinated can be reservoirs for the bacteria.
Vaccine producers consult vaccine researchers? GASP!
So what's your solution for stopping infant death from pertussis? Do nothing?
As a nurse I have seen the what results when you don't have your immunizations up to date. To see a child or a young adult dying of an illness that was totally preventable is so sad to me.
I understand that people feel the have the right to avoid immunizations if they want, but it is a public health issue. If you have a person with active TB, they can be jailed if they do not comply with treatment because of the risk to others. Where do our civil rights end when we consider what is best for the common good?
#3 - Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:11 PM EDTAs a nurse I have seen the what results when you don't have your immunizations up to date.
What you're seeing is called confirmation bias.
TDK,
Thanks for your professional insight. I've met too many people (even medical professionals) who seem to have forgotten that vaccines are a major medical breakthrough that saves lives.
If you have a person with active TB, they can be jailed if they do not comply with treatment because of the risk to others.
What if someone doesn't have TB but someone else in authority arbitrarily suspects they are "at risk" of getting TB. Should this person face social persecution and and/or jail for not complying with state treatment even though they don't actually have TB?. Where does it stop?
Whooping cough is spread by people who have been fully vaccinated. It is a medical fact. Many in the field don't know this.
Yes.. thanks TDK
I remember receiving a shot for Polio, and in the schools when they finally switched over to the drink.. Polio was one of the largest problems.. and due to everyone having the vaccine.. it was mostly eradicated here in the US
There are signs of it coming back because people are not using preventive medicine.. they think they know more than the scientist that give of their lives to help cure people of these illnesses.. and we are not just talking about the CDC.. this is a worldwide effort for humanity.
They ..the scientist would not be giving us these vaccines just to make them feel good, it is to protect everyone from everyone else.
There are signs of it (polio) coming back because people are not using preventive medicine
Where? Really, Here in the U.S?
Or here....
Polio outbreak sparked by vaccine, experts say
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutter_Laboratories
The Cutter incident was one of the worst pharmaceutical disasters in U.S. history and caused several thousand children to be exposed to live polio virus upon vaccination.[2]. The NIH Laboratory of Biologics Control, which had certified the Cutter polio vaccine, had received advance warnings of problems: in 1954, staff member Dr. Bernice Eddy had reported to her superiors that some of the inoculated monkeys had become paralyzed (pictures were sent as well). William Sebrell, the director of NIH wouldn't hear of such a thing...[1]
[edit]Numbers affected
The mistake resulted in the production of 120,000 doses of polio vaccine that contained live polio virus. Of the children who received the vaccine, 40,000 developed abortive poliomyelitis (a form of the disease that does not involve the central nervous system), 56 developed paralytic poliomyelitis and of these 5 children died as a result of polio infection.[3] The exposures led to an epidemic of polio in the families and communities of the affected children, resulting in a further 113 people paralyzed and 5 deaths.<ref=NEJM/>
In my experience with the public health systems in three states, patients who were placed under arrest where patients with confirmed cases of TB. They were not suspected cases. Often, health departments will place those patients under DOT (directly observed therapy) where someone will go out and give them their medications to make sure they take them. Arresting someone is the extreme when the patient cannot be tracked or refuses medication. TB is a special health problem because drug resistant TB is wide spread now and everything has to be done to get patients who have TB treated.
As as for confirmation bias, I don't care what you call it, but it might be wise to have some people who don't get their kids or themselves immunized sit in the ED and observe these really sick kids who can't breath and watch them die in the ICU. I keep my immunizations up to date in case of exposure to those who don't get immunized. As a health care provider we are exposed to very bad bugs all the time and I don't want to get sick and die because someone else did not get their kid immunized. And they walk into triage, coughing on everything, parents are not doing anything to cover their mouths. And have not even been smart enough to know to give some Tylenol for the 103 degree fever.
But, it is a well know fact that you can't fix stupid. Just my opinion you understand.
#4 - Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:58 AM EDTAs as for confirmation bias, I don't care what you call it, but it might be wise to have some people who don't get their kids or themselves immunized sit in the ED and observe these really sick kids who can't breath and watch them die in the ICU.
I call it confirmation bias because that is what it is. Your opinion with these pertussis patients (majority of people who die are under 3 months old and not able to be fully vaccinated) that you've seen is that they contracted the disease from a vaccine refuser. Since fully vaccinatd can get and spread whooping cough how did you know this not to be the case with your patients. Undoubtedly many nurses have seen unvaccinated infants become infected by fully vaccinated individuals. Did these nurses also have confirmation bias and automatically assume it was the vaccine refuser who was the "contaminator"?
And have not even been smart enough to know to give some Tylenol for the 103 degree fever.
Tylenol weakens the immune response. It might not be such a wise thing to do. Why do you give tylenol? Certainly not to decrease spread of disease. it's for the potential threat of seizure.
Acetaminophen Linked to Poorer Immune Response to Infant Vaccines
I know, I know they don't teach you this stuff in the hospital. you're taught fear and to follow orders and protocol. Luckily modern nurses are waking up to this medical heiarchy mess.
So you blindly give out tylenol to reduce a natural fever yet when a febrile seizure is CAUSED/induced by a medical procedure then the seizure is minimized. Which is it?
MMRV Doubles Risk for Febrile Seizures 7 to 10 Days After Vaccination
Dr. Bradley reiterated that febrile seizures are usually "very brief" and benign. "They're not known to produce any neurological injury. If the seizures were horrible and children ended up with injury, we would not be recommending this vaccine."
#5 - Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:45 AM EDTDear Robert: Exactly what do you do for a living? Have you spent any time in an emergency department as a nurse or physician? Have you taken care of children with febrile seizures? Have you seen a 16 year old die of varicella encephalitis? I think not. Of course Tylenol does not decrease bacteria or a virus and that is not the reason you give it. Also, a mild fever is a good thing. But it is NOT GOOD for the human brain to have REPEATED febrile seizures and I don't care what article you reference. You need to do a little more research into the issue of febrile seizures that are not under control and the brain injury that can occur with high fevers that are not controlled. And I DO KNOW if the patient has had an immunization because I ASK the question as part of my assessment. Do you think that we just go to the beside and blindly do things to patients without having a history? Don't you think that we ask those questions?
And let me tell you something else. I DON'T "just follow orders". I have been a nurse for 32 years but I keep up with my profession and I assess patients and individualize care based on the needs and history of the patient. Patients are not "cookbook" and what might work for one may not work for another. Protocols are fine, but you have to do what is right for the patient in each situation. I am offended that you think that "modern nurses" are up to date and that us " old nurses" are just servants to physicians and hospital administration. I guarantee you that is not the case. I know how to think in a critical manner and make decisions for patients. That is my responsibility. This is why I have to TEACH THE NEW NURSES how to have critical thinking skills when they get to my floor because they are NOT taught this in nursing school. They do not learn how to put the entire picture together and you don't learn this until you are out there doing it. There is no substitution for experience. And I WILL FIGHT WITH ANYONE I HAVE TO to get what is right for the patient. Doctor, administration, whoever. Because I am not going to compromise my standards for a "rule".
You had better hope, that if you are real sick, that you have one of us "old gals" taking care of you so that when you take a turn for the worse, someone will be there to notice those subtle signs before your condition goes into the toilet.
And frankly, I don't care if you agree with me or not. I am going to tell you the same thing that I tell every other arm chair expert on health care. If you have not been there then don't tell me how to do my job. My job is to keep patients safe and to attempt to make them better if I can. My job is to try to save your life in spite of your own ignorance.
#7 - Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:13 PM EDTYou're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead. |
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