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Article Source: The Boston HeraldBETHLEHEM, Pa. — An eastern Pennsylvania prosecutor wants charges dropped against a couple who refused to pay a tip at a restaurant where they say they got poor service.
Northampton County District Attorney John Morganelli says he is recommending that Bethlehem police drop the theft of services charges.
No tip - you get arrested.. What are your thoughts?
#1 - Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:26 AM ESTIn this case the tip was part of the bill. Don't pay your bill, get arrested. If you are unreasonable enough to go to jail over $16, how unreasonable were you in your expectations of service?
Gratuity/Tip..."A gift of money, over and above payment due for service or goods, something given without claim or demand."
Gratuity/Tip is a "gift" not a "fee". It's no secret that restaurants pimp livable waitstaff wages off onto the public. While I know it's done, a restaurant does not have the legal right to expect or impose a tip as a "fee". Since the restaurant owner supposedly pays his waitstaff minimum wage, their wage for providing service is included in the cost of the meal.
An exception to this might be a contracted catered event where the "gratuity" is included upfront into the total cost of the catered event and the customer enters into this agreement knowing full well that the gratuity is part and parcel of the total cost.
I'm glad to see someone had the balls to legally challenge this egregious and presumptive practice.
Judge---1 Restaurant Owner...ZIP!
#2 - Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:41 PM ESTAn exception to this might be a contracted catered event where the "gratuity" is included upfront into the total cost of the catered event and the customer enters into this agreement knowing full well that the gratuity is part and parcel of the total cost.
That is indeed an exception, and that is the case here.
James...I'm not sure what you read...but what I read was these two fellows were with a party of 8 in a pub. There was nothing in this article that described this as a "catered event" where gratuities are figured in and a known part of the bill upfront. None the less...I think even with catered events, the gratuity payment could be challenged if the "service" provided was deemed sub-par by the client/s.
It is a stated and printed(and common) policy of the restaurant that large parties are charged extra. If you agree to service under those terms, you agree to a contract.
As with any contract, when performance becomes an issue, it is incumbent upon the offended party to attempt to mitigate damages. Not wait until the end and say "you know what, I don't think I am going to live up to my end of the contract, even though I accepted your performance." You accept a meal after an hour wait, you have accepted a modification of the contract.
They should have got up and left, not continue to accept goods and services and then attempt to renege on their agreement. That is not only the law, it's just reasonable.
But no, people just can't pass up an opportunity to screw someone they think screwed them, even to the point of going to jail over $16.
As soon as you walk in and sit down, and order.. eat the food.. you have entered into an agreement that you will pay your bill.. If they do not like the service.. then one asks for management, and explain the situation.... For 16 dollars.. if talking to management does not work.. then just do not go there anymore. .. make your feelings known especially about the multiple cig breaks and all.. maybe other customers might just get and leave or not bother to sit down.. so it will cost the restaurant in the long run more than 16
I went to one restaurant.. there were only 4 of us.. but when it came time for the tip.. I left 1 penny in a glass of water... the service was atrocious.
I recommend not to complain until after you get your meal about the service.. from what I have seen .. there is all sorts of things they can do to your meal.
I don't see anything in the article where the establishment had a posted gratuity policy.
This should be lesson learned for the two people and, I would further suggest that you should never eat at a restaurant that requires gratuities, it usually means they suck bad enough to demand a tip.
I don't see anything in the article where the establishment had a posted gratuity policy.
It is mentioned in other write-ups.
A spokesman for the Lehigh Pub said the restaurant menu makes it clear parties of six or more have a mandatory 18 per cent gratuity.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6637437/Couple-arrested-over-theft-for-refusing-to-tip-in-restaurant.html
Hmmmm, I find a part of the owner's story fishy.
The likelihood of him offering a discount on the food versus allowing the gratuity to be taken off is pretty slim. The gentleman made the effort to explain his lack of gratuity instead of just taking off so, I think he was being pretty reasonable.
At best, the gratuity should remain a gratuity and if a customer refuses to pay it, decline to provide them service again. Too many servers depend on mandatory gratuities and provide bad service to large groups. Fact is, large groups are easier to wait on than tons of small groups.
I'd prefer to think of it the same way as non-profits requiring donations for services, it's shameful and the best I can do is avoid dealing with them.
Perhaps the wording should be changed to read..."for parties of six or more there will be an 18% surcharge fee added for waitstaff services." Then there wouldn't be any gratuitous abuse of the language that causes confusion between a "tip" (gift) and an expected "fee".
I think this is a case of three childish parties crossing paths and no one wanted to budge.
The manager offered to take off items, but leave the tip. The customer doesn't want to pay the tip, but will pay for the food,. The waitress is no where to be found.
As I have stated, I wouldn't leave a large party for a break.
As a manager I would have told them we would take the tip off,. After they left, I would comp the check and pay the waitress. The customer never has to know.
As a customer, if service is intolerable, I would have left, or closed my check and went to the bar, since that's where they were going anyway. I certainly wouldn't spend my evening in handcuffs over $16.
No one in this story is clean.
I've been a waitress & can understand adding on a gratuity to large parties. However, the wait staff should still be responsible to provide adequate service. In this case, the patrons never received some of their food, had to get their own drinks from the bar & watched as their waitress took numerous cigarette breaks outside. What she deserved is not a tip, but a swift kick in the butt from her manager (who also should get a swift kick).
#3 - Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:24 PM ESTYou know, I wouldn't take a break when I had a party that might pay me $100 for an hours work. But that's me.
Maybe she was sick. Maybe she had just received some shocking news. Maybe she is actually the best server the place has, but they have worked her so hard she is exhausted.
Maybe she was too fed up with the kitchen to face another table that had to wait an hour for their food.
Without actually sitting at the table or being inside of the waitresses head, we can probably postulate more entertaining "maybes" then debating our opinions based on speculation about what "maybe" happened. Bottom line...the employee has to "earn" their wage from his/her boss and "earn" the gratuity (gift) from the customer. It would appear the prosecuting attorney agrees with the premise that a gratuity is a voluntary "gift" and not an expected "fee".
It would also appear as though the customer and manager did have that conversation. After the customer said they weren't going to pay the grituity, the owner obviously wasn't willing to negotiate or compromise and called the cops to make the arrest. Bad business choice in my humble opinion.
Or...maybe the owner was married and he was having intimate relations with the waitress back in the cooler and she consequently neglected the table. What the customers witnessed was the "after-glow" cigarettes out back and the owner's attempt to cover up their affair and protect the waitress, so he called the cops. Yeah, thas what happened...maybe.
In this case, we aren't talking about a tip or gratuity.
You are probably right about the manager making bad decisions. So did the customer obviously.
You can also find service disagreeable without undue judgment of the server. Isn't there some kind of admonishment about judging others...?
"In this case, we aren't talking about a tip or gratuity."
We're not...? I was.
"You are probably right about the manager making bad decisions. So did the customer obviously."
Yeah...eating at that pub! Bet he doesn't make that mistake again...
"You can also find service disagreeable without undue judgment of the server."
I wasn't there, but from what I've read...it sounded due.
"Isn't there some kind of admonishment about judging others...?"
Rodney King..."Can't we all just get along"?
Sorry James, now I'm jus being a sarcastic smart ass. My apology if I offended. I meant nothing personal. Thanks for the chat. We've severely flogged this dead horse and now I'm beginning to feel sorry for it's poor bloody carcass. Cow tipping anyone?
Sorry James, now I'm jus being a sarcastic smart ass. My apology if I offended.
No prob. Not quick to take offense.
I hate to put it this way but...
The server's personal life or state of affairs isn't the customer's concern, it is unprofessional to think that it would be okay for the server to in turn provide bad service.
Point in case, the server is the person who should be uniquely aware that they are being judged, and if they do not like performance based gratuity from possibly partial judges, they shouldn't be serving.
Dustin-
you are correct. But we don't live in a perfect world, and everyone doesn't operate at 100% every day, all day. That is why we need compassion.
Time Lord -
Same to you :)
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